Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 In this podcast, we follow up on Arden's Rek at Earth Rangers as he discovers an unexpectedly impactful solution crafted by a direct report with the advice process.
Speaker 1 00:00:09 And then we introduce you to a new organizational leader. This time Tiffany Ferris, the CEO of palantir.net, and you will hear about her adventures with transparency.
Speaker 2 00:00:21 Welcome to the Epic Agility Leadership podcast series where you embark on a journey of business agility and leadership evolution with your hosts Ron Laud Daddio and Lisa Atkins.
Speaker 0 00:00:32 Well, thank you everyone. So we're excited to reintroduce Art Arabian to join us again because we're gonna hear a lot now about his experience in bringing the advice process to his organization. So Art, welcome back. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank
Speaker 3 00:00:49 You for having me.
Speaker 0 00:00:51 Always a pleasure. So we're really keen to hear about your experiment and the consequences and the impact and really what you learned. But before we get there, if you could do us a favor and just remind us a little bit about how you ran your experiment.
Speaker 3 00:01:06 So I decided to run my experiment in a bit of an isolated fashion with one specific senior manager in my team. My initial thought was to just kind of try it with this approach and, and get learnings on both sides for myself on, on the approach and as well as just to see if, you know, this experiment would be something that I could expand out further to the team after it's completed. And then of course, if it's something that seems to have a positive effect on the organization, then could have a, you know, bigger discussion with the management team on, on seeing if something we can utilize for the whole organization.
Speaker 0 00:01:41 Excellent. And so what decision did you delegate and who did you delegate it to and what happened?
Speaker 3 00:01:47 So the decision that I decided to delegate was to come up with a new solution or approach on how we measure our performance, our KPI of our mobile app, which is one of our core programs in the organization. So that we could have a better way of assessing how the app performs over time in whatever period of time we decide to measure and potentially using this approach as our main data cadence.
Speaker 1 00:02:15 And when you sat down with this senior manager and said, okay, I'm delegating this decision to you, what did you tell them about the, the power they had and the process that you suggested they use?
Speaker 3 00:02:28 Yeah, so obviously before I actually sat down with the senior manager, I did spend some time before just to come up with, you know, what would be the potential experiment I wanted to do. But once I did sit down with them, I did let them know that they had the, the power to make this decision completely on their own, that I would support their decision no matter what. Given that, of course they would be going through the process of getting the advice from his fellow peers, any other sources, other departments, wherever he needed to look into in terms of getting that advice or data that he needed to extract to decompose his, his approach.
Speaker 0 00:03:09 So what happened? So what do you think happened with them? What was their learning experience and how did they respond?
Speaker 3 00:03:15 So during the meeting this discussion, there was a bit of a hesitation, you know, just because they, they, they were very used to, used to always coming to me for that decision. Like, they'll have something they wanna do, they need me to okay it, et cetera. Just obviously with there was that hesitancy like, what happens if I, you know, if I come up with a solution that you don't like? And I said, well that's, it's not about whether I like it or not. It's about whether you are happy with it and you think it's the right approach. And you've done, you've gone through that advice process to make sure you've talked to the relevant parties, you've talked to the, to the data team to make sure this makes sense. You, you understand what the, what the goal is that we're trying to achieve. I said, I, I'm gonna back you either way on this, so it really doesn't matter and I think that there's no way you could get it wrong, but it's not even about right and wrong.
Speaker 3 00:04:07 It's just about you doing your best on coming up with solution. And then we can look at it. I think some of that in depth back and forth discussion we had, which was about 15, 20 minutes, it resonated with them a little bit better. And so they were a little bit less hesitant. I, you know, I, I didn't give them any specific time, I didn't say I needed back in two weeks or anything like that. I just let them kind of go at it. That seemed to work well. They told me they'll obviously they're interested and excited about seeing what they can come up with. But yeah, it was just that initial hesitation. It was already warranted. Given how the team operates today,
Speaker 1 00:04:40 I just wanna acknowledge in earmark what you're actually doing here, art, what you're doing and it's emblematic of this conversation you had and the hesitancy this person had and the power you conferred to them. What you're doing is you're actually reversing the learned helplessness that has seeped its way into the group. I mean, I just really want you to know you're reversing something that is endemic in most of our corporate cultures and has been an operation in your group and it's an amazing thing to, to to, to hear you talk about actually doing it. 'cause people think it's such a hard thing to do and it's, it's not,
Speaker 3 00:05:21 You're a hundred percent right. And to be honest, it's extremely visible and evident in our organization because I noticed, not just even within my team, but just literally organizationally almost all the time I see in a flurry of c email threads going back and forth or slack conversations, et cetera. And it's always about, you know, someone needs something, they message particular senior manager for approval, they need that, go ahead. And some of 'em are just so trivial and I'm thinking the senior manager can easily empower the person to make this decision. There's no reason for them to need that approval. So I would love to have this reversed if, as you said, at the very least for my team, but preferably for the whole organization.
Speaker 0 00:06:07 I I, and you have, and that's the beau that's the brilliance of this. And, and to extend more about what Lisa was talking about, what you're, what you're invoking is a shift from a management responsibility or position or mindset to a leadership mindset. And a lot of people try to understand, well what does this mindset really mean? And it's, and what we're talking about right now is exactly the mindset shift that we're talking about where a lot of people have been beholden to a traditional mindset of a manager who's articulates, you know, what is done, what needs to be done. They arbitrate the work, they decide whether the the work is of quality or not. So really what ends up happening to Lisa's point is people then just become victims of the whole system. And they just say, you know what, art, you tell me how hard to jump.
Speaker 0 00:06:48 I'll jump you, pay me. We're good to go. What you've done now is you've shifted the delegation process and using the advice process and handing this opportunity of decision making with the kind of support that you did to this individual. You are now a leader. You are empowering people, you are helping them grow. You're building leaders out of your own organization. But what you're doing then is you're, you're telling them that you're not gonna arbitrate, you're not gonna dictate, you're going to allow them to be experts at what they're experts at and you're gonna let them make the decision on behalf of the team. And so you're less of the bottleneck, you're less of the arbitrator and the controller and it turns you less of a manager and more into a leader, someone who's aspiring, one who shows the direction, but more importantly allows the team to really live to their potential by, by really exploiting what they can contribute to the, to the contribution of the team. And, and that really is an, a beautiful example of that mindset shift that you've triggered in the organization. Yeah,
Speaker 3 00:07:52 I, I do hope it continues with the individual. Even though this particular experiment was successful on, on all fronts, my particular learning was I like to be able to push them in that direction because I don't want them to revert back to requiring me to make these decisions that don't need to be made and having, staying power through the process and through their career because, you know, I, I don't want it to just be a one-time thing.
Speaker 0 00:08:16 Excellent. So, so how did this play out? What happened? So you delegated this decision to this individual, you suggested what the advice process was in your own way. They were a bit initially concerned and hesitant as you had said, and but still assured that you were interested actually more in the consequence, not just whether it was right or wrong, that you were interested more, that they took something on and not trying to aspire to see if they could please art or do art right or wrong. So what happened, you gave them the opportunity and what transpired
Speaker 3 00:08:54 After about a week of them working with their peers and talking and getting advice. You know, he started looking at ai, he started looking at external consultants. He went through a number of iterations of figuring out what is the best approach. And so when he came back with what he believed was the right solution, I was actually kind of stunned. It was actually above and beyond my expectation. And again, I wasn't going in with any expectation, but came out extremely successful. And the result of it was that this approach is actually going to be our main approach on how we measure our app. It has redefined our data cadence for the organization. We're gonna be utilizing this approach for how we report to our board. Not withstanding it had its challenges of course that he went through, but he, he definitely came up with a very good solution and yeah, it was really great.
Speaker 1 00:09:45 So one of the things I'm aware of is how many emails with trivial decisions that come to you that might not come to you in the future, that people will have agency to make decisions on their own and trust themselves and through, through using the advice process that they've got, their ducks covered, ducks in a row so that it's one possible impact. Think for a think for a moment, what has already been the impact to you? And then imagine this in the whole organization, what could be the impact if the advice process is used more as a decision making method in the whole org?
Speaker 3 00:10:24 From an organizational standpoint, that actually is extremely positive because in our particular organization, you know, we have four executive management individuals, we have four directors and our president. And if you think about the entire team, every one of those trivial decisions has to be approved by any one of those managers, including myself. It's just a massive hit to our product productivity. So I feel that this organizationally, if it was successful, if we could explore the opportunity to put it out to the organization, I think our productivity could shoot up exponentially.
Speaker 1 00:11:02 And Art, what's been the impact to you personally so far, just from the first experiment that you've run?
Speaker 3 00:11:09 For me personally, it's, it's extremely positive because now I have the confidence that I can delegate with the right direction to this particular manager. Really any task, especially since this particular experiment wasn't even in the wheelhouse. It wasn't something that's part of their expertise, but they were still able to do a fantastic job at it. So for me personally, it's great that I can now basically rely on this particular individual. I almost consider a leader as well, or a growing leader and know that they can execute on anything. I would love for the rest of my team at the very minimum to have the same capabilities as well. So for me it's a great impact and that's a great learning for me 'cause I know that I can do that with, with him and it would be great if I could do it in the future as well with everyone else.
Speaker 0 00:11:57 So Art, what do you think it's done with your relationship with the individual that you delegated this opportunity to?
Speaker 3 00:12:04 I think it's, it's had a positive effect in the sense that there's a, even in a higher level of trust now between the two of us, that it's, it's really helped him realize that he can be a leader himself. So I think that that's been, that's been really good from that perspective.
Speaker 1 00:12:20 Hey art, thank you so much for coming and telling us how your experiment worked. We're so happy to celebrate with you how it went and even if it had just gone horribly, that's learning too, you know, so that's part of all of this is just like kicking up these experiment loops in one's leadership and learning from whatever happens. So you got learning on so many levels and we so appreciate you sharing it with us.
Speaker 3 00:12:44 Absolutely. I appreciate you guys giving some that coaching guidance on, on executing this. It was, it was really great. Loved it.
Speaker 0 00:12:51 So art, thank you so much for your contribution and the courage that you had on actually taking this opportunity and trying this experiment out. 'cause that took a lot of courage as a leader. Really appreciate it. Same here,
Speaker 3 00:13:02 Same to you guys
Speaker 0 00:13:03 And we wish you the best. Thanks guys. I am really curious, what are your takeaways?
Speaker 1 00:13:10 So Ron, my big takeaway from what Art did is just the reminder that most leaders are not command and control monsters. Most leaders are like art. I mean they genuinely want their team members to make decisions, take action, keep momentum moving forward, be creative. But these same leaders fall into the same old systems of sort of like Mother may I. And they become the decision bottleneck for all kinds of things, including trivial decisions. And that's not what they want. So what I love about what Art did is bringing in the advice process. It's not the only way, but it's one good way to start breaking that paradigm of Mother May I and allowing people to really take up their decision authority.
Speaker 0 00:13:54 Yeah, that's wonderful. And it's an extension really of that cultural shift that's so important that leaders really have to shape. Like what was really, what I really enjoyed about listening to art's experience was the skepticism that his employee had. And what I liked about it too was art was cautious and careful about that and he was assuring and he was really cognizant of their concern. So inadvertently while he was really looking at the organizational shift, he was conscious and careful about the cultural shift that he was creating. And that kind of cultural shift was really what lays the groundwork for the kind of business results that he was looking for. And it, and it builds trust simply because what he's using is power for, as a leader is empowerment. And I love when I'm consulting a lot of other executives on how do I empower, how do I actually make that a reality? Really this is one of the best ways to put into practice empowerment in a very effective and safe way.
Speaker 1 00:14:53 So in this episode we are gonna be delving into chapter 17 of the Lead Together book. It's about transparency, determine when, how and why to share information. And this is a big topic for a lot of leaders.
Speaker 0 00:15:10 It's a very powerful tool for any leader to use transparency because it allows them to delegate decisioning so that you have a faster decisioning at scale. It allows people to be more engaged with the organization because you can't own and you can't sense or feel what you don't know.
Speaker 1 00:15:28 I love this one liner in this chapter. This is what it's all about. It says transparency clarifies where power lies and where the action happens.
Speaker 0 00:15:38 But it does come with some concerns that are legitimate, that leaders need to address sometimes before they take this transparency step,
Speaker 1 00:15:45 Right? So if you are an organization that has had many decades or maybe even a hundred years of business decisions and all those business decisions have created inequitable conditions and all kinds of things that you would rather people not see, this is an opportunity to clean up some of those things before the, the more transparency can happen. Or at least having a commitment to cleaning up those things as transparency happens.
Speaker 0 00:16:11 And transparency can mean many things. This could be just something as as innocuous as disclosing how a decision was made or why a decision was made. But this can go as far as disclosing financials. So it's really an important step for leaders to take and it needs to have some kind of a strategy to it. But in most cases, starting small, growing big is the ways in which to get more comfort to learn what can and can't work and what is really desired by the employees to really affect the bottom line the most.
Speaker 1 00:16:43 Yeah. And we know as everything, what's the big business benefit? The thing that I hear from leaders all the time is I've empowered my people but they're not taking up their empowerment or they've, they've been told they can make these decisions, they're just not making 'em. But one of the reasons is that the people who leaders are wanting to make these decisions don't have the context and the information the leaders do when the leaders are making those decisions. So if we want leader full to be throughout the organization and decision making to be out through throughout the organization, then that context needs to be shared and transparency is one of the ways to share context.
Speaker 0 00:17:21 Excellent. So for leaders who feel the symptom of being a bottleneck, maybe transparency is one of the medications they should consider.
Speaker 1 00:17:27 Because you can see through bottles, can't you? A bottleneck is actually transparent.
Speaker 0 00:17:36 Oh
Speaker 1 00:17:38 Alright. Are right everyone. So this means we are ready to invite our next guest in. She is Tiffany Ferris and she is the CEO of palantir.net. So Tiffany, tell us a little bit about yourself about palantir.net and just like give us the specs.
Speaker 5 00:17:55 All right. Yeah, thank you for having me. Palantir is a digital consultancy and we like to work with really large public sector and public benefit organizations on their kind of gnarly complex web modernization projects. And we do that using a very agile approach as well as open source technologies. Our grounding throughout our history has been very much an an open source. So we were founded in 96, so we've been around quite a while and we like to think of ourselves as this really collaborative group of leaders and strategists and UX designers and developers. And we're very motivated by helping others discover and create and share knowledge. We hope that we're strengthening humanity both with the work that we do, but also the way that we do that work together.
Speaker 1 00:18:49 So Tiffany, you got a chance to peruse the lead together book and think about your challenges and opportunities like right with you right now, the things you're thinking about. What is in a nutshell, the challenger opportunity that that has had you thinking
Speaker 5 00:19:10 Palantir is thinking very deeply about the system level and how we might design systems of self-organization that really catalyze and support each person as a steward of Palantir. So for 2024, we're trying to both model and practice. We're trying to stay very focused and to streamline what we're doing and have these very courageous conversations. So, you know, in my role as CEO, the thing I think about probably on a daily basis is how we might support getting the right information at the right time to the right person at the right level. And so with that in mind, it was really the transparency chapter that, that stood out to me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:19:56 Now let me just let, let me just jump in here 'cause you are already doing a lot of transparency things in your organization that I would say are advanced. So give people a flavor for how much transparency already exists. So for people to be able to do their jobs and to function in, in great context.
Speaker 5 00:20:20 Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And this is, for me, it was one of the easiest places to start because it was a place where I had a lot of control. I have information and I have context about the guardrails and the guidelines. I understand what's safe to try and am really able to analyze the potential upside and the consequences. So one of the first places that we started was really with something I call the Weather Report. And so the weather report has been a quarterly update on how Palantir is doing against these three really key metrics about how we're structured as an organization, how our finances work. So we look at production metrics, income metrics, and cash reserves. And so I've reported on those to the entire team every quarter since 2019. We also have a role-based structure. So the RBS, which is what we call a role-based structure comes with a framework that allows people to self-evaluate, and then work with their peer coaches for how they're showing up to others to be able to level themselves. Because we believe very strongly in equal, equal pay for equal responsibilities. So part and parcel with that is our leveled salary structure. So if you are, you know, a level 10, you know that all level tens make that same amount of money.
Speaker 0 00:21:44 This is fascinating to me. And I, I know we're gonna get to a point soon about what experiment in transparency that you want to take it another step, but since you've already taken a couple steps, I'm really curious, what lessons have you learned and what insight have you gained and what benefits do you think TRA transparency has really given you and your organization?
Speaker 5 00:22:06 Well, I think that the weather report allows people to, to hold me accountable for the company level health and performance in ways that they might not either feel comfortable or have sufficient context to otherwise. I really, it's important to me that anybody who chooses to work at Palantir be able to, you know, evaluate for themselves is Palantir on track. And so what I try to do is, again, get, get this information in a way that's accessible to the team out in front of them. What
Speaker 0 00:22:40 I like about that is the CEO saying that your people are gonna hold you accountable. And usually one of my experiences are in most corporations is the other way around. And I really find that very refreshing and inspiring. So I that that was one key takeaway. I got that from that. Thank you very much for that.
Speaker 1 00:22:58 Yeah, this is the moment that I wish this podcast were video. 'cause I have like the biggest smile on my face. Like, I cannot praise, I cannot praise Tiffany enough for what she and the others in her organization have created, you know, founding Palantir on the ideas of emergence and self-organization and freedom with responsibility from the very, very beginning.
Speaker 5 00:23:21 You know, I I think it's really interesting. One of the things we like to do is to say the quiet part out loud. And so Ron, when you said that, you know, individuals don't feel comfortable holding their leaders accountable, they don't talk about it, but they do. People vote with their feet. And I, and what I know is that they're going to hold me accountable. I want them to have the whole picture that they're gonna hold me accountable to. And I, I want them to know that I take that part of my job very seriously.
Speaker 1 00:23:49 So as you read the transparency chapter, you know, here you are several steps down the road to a much more transparent organization than many. So what were any ideas or vivid passages that stuck out for you when you read that chapter?
Speaker 5 00:24:06 As I, you know, was rereading the book? I think the, the quote pulled me in, right? The, the Keith Rabbi quote at the beginning. You know, if I want people to make the decisions that, that I would have and but in a much more scalable way, I have to give them the same information I have. And part of my learning journey toward transparency is that I am not my audience. I process information in a somewhat unique way. I see everything at once and I see the connections between it. So if I just gave everybody the information, which I've been doing for years in the weather report, like all the, the conclusions I draw I get from that data, it doesn't necessarily mean the same thing. So it comes back to, you know, what I said earlier about the right information at the right time, at the right level to the right person. So my initial hope in that weather report had been that people would feel a connection to their own decisions and the decisions that they make collectively in their teams to the bottom line of the company. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:25:18 So, okay, so the quote, yep. So the quote in the chapter got your attention. Any other specific ideas in there or something that you, an idea you jumped off from that is starting to inform what you might wanna do next?
Speaker 5 00:25:32 Definitely. So early on into our self-organization journey, I was really inspired by Zingerman's and their scoreboard. So for those who aren't familiar with it yet, Zingerman's reviews the scoreboard every week in their weekly huddles. They have an open book process and they really advocate that the key to kind of land accountability is in having these meaningful metrics so that people can see the impact of their lived experience in real time. So I've been fascinated by that concept and how might that exist for Palantir? So this has been years in the making and as I sat through reading that chapter on transparency, I was like, this is that moment that I need to do it. And I've been inching, I have a hypothesis that I've been working on with our accounting team around what might it be if we created team level p and Ls and exposed them.
Speaker 5 00:26:35 And I needed to do that in a way, again, it was, that was meaningful. I I am not looking to make everyone at Palantir a a bunch of accountants or people who can read these, you know, financial reports. I would love it and they're welcome to, and I'm happy to share everything I know, but I, I think the key is in these p and ls. So I've been working on this with the accounting team for a while. It's, it's ready to go into place and I, I see our first p and ls at a team level tomorrow. So when the invitation came up to, to think about transparency, I really use it as an opportunity to push me out of my comfort zone and use it as an opportunity to co-create and co-learner with our team of teams group. We call it teaming. So instead of me going away like the little, little elf with their shoes, I'm gonna be doing this work in the open with those from the teaming group. So
Speaker 1 00:27:36 What do you think, what do you think, Tiffany, what do you think are the things that you are watching out for?
Speaker 5 00:27:42 I'm certainly watching out for misinterpretation of data. You know, we have a lot of different communication styles represented in Palantir and on teaming as a microcosm of Palantir, you know, some construct their worldview leaf by leaf and see the forest that way. And so that will be a longer process and we have others who see everything but in increasing levels of resolution over time. So that that push and that pull will, will kind of broaden my perspective as I start to think about the kind of supports we might need to be able to roll this out in a way that, you know, that people feel like there's a psychological safety net that we want there to be channels and, and feedback so that any kind of concerns people have can be heard. And that throughout this process, I want them to feel supported. I want them to feel valued. And I think there is a, there's a high risk of people feeling judged or scrutinized or penalized, but I, it's really important that regardless of what the financial data shows, that, that people understand that, that they're safe. This is, this is information and it opens up options that it was, it always was there, I was always seeing it. What's different now is that they get to see it too.
Speaker 1 00:29:05 That's amazing. So that's a bit about the things you're watching out for. I wanna take you to the upside. So just imagine this goes amazingly well. What do you think is the upside for the organization?
Speaker 5 00:29:18 I think that in short it's more engaged, more accountable and more savvy Palantir, right? I I think that it, the outcomes that I see when we do this well will be really enhanced ownership and accountability for more proactive and creative problem solving. So that's, that's how I use numbers every day and I want more people at Palantir to find inspiration rather than intimidation in these numbers or, or, or even just mystery in these numbers. They are just another piece of data that fills out the puzzle. And so to me, constraints help you to identify good choices. And so I think they really help that way. I do see, obviously one of the, the key benefits would be improved financial literacy, which helps all of us make better informed decisions. It helps with greater alignment about what kind of firm we are, what kind of choices we make, what kind of projects we pursue.
Speaker 5 00:30:20 I think all of those things are, are nothing but upside. And then I, I think that when we do it well, it will boost both morale and motivation because it connects your work to the direct impact on the company in ways that I think right now is a little bit disconnected. And so that, that, that's why to do this, I think, and it starts to, I think create that greater sense of, of responsibility of connecting direct, you know, labor to indirect labor, which I think people kind of see as separate. I think that's very, very key. But in the p and l it's gonna be distributed proportionately. So there's no quibbles about, oh well you get this or you don't get this. We have, as a company talked about in the weather report for years, the percentages that make a healthy company. So we talk about what gross profit you need and what the range is and where we target that number and we talk about what needs to be in admin. We talk about what needs to be in sales and marketing and you know, what needs to be in facilities, which is really just our annual retreat where we come together and, and be in person since we're a remote firm. So they've been socialized to the notion of those percentages for a long time and this will start to bring it back and make it more relevant for them.
Speaker 0 00:31:43 This is for, this is, I, I'm tra back and I'm really, I'm really excited. But what you're doing really, there's a couple major things that I'm starting to see that might might happen and I'm curious to see if they do happen, but you really can't own what you can't see or know. So what you're doing is you're giving them an awareness such that they can start to own it and, and, and get a relationship with it. The other thing too is you're giving them little mini financial compasses. So now what you're gonna do at the micro level in each team is you're gonna start to create a much tighter alignment financially because now everybody's gonna kind of know where their north is. So that's fan, that's fantastic, but what I'm curious about is, so how are, how are you helping them with that literacy so that they can, they, they can truly interpret what they're seeing and, and understand it a bit more.
Speaker 5 00:32:30 Currently we do the weather report every quarter and so I reinforce, and every time I introduce those metrics, I don't just talk about the metrics, I emphasize what they are. So they've been seeing these same metrics or similar metrics at the company scale for years. And so this is gonna start to bring it down. That said, I do think that the communication, additional guardrails and additional guidelines will be emergent from the work I do with teaming. And so I, I think that as we try to make the, this experiment small and bite sized, I'll start with that small group, whether they choose to share it with their teams yet is gonna be up to them. But I, I think that it makes it safe to, to fail to make the mistakes we're inevitably gonna make around, you know, is this explained thoroughly enough? You know, do we need additional scaffolds for, you know, to understand it?
Speaker 5 00:33:28 So with the, when someone onboards to Palantir, there's a macro version of a weather report that I recorded years ago that walks them through every single detail of how we exist as a company, how we thrive as a company, because we have a lot of, there are a lot of levers, but there are some levers that we choose as a strategic decision not to pull. So a lot of consultancies or agencies scale up and scale down, but we don't, we make a commitment to the person and the position when we hire and when we grow because our goal isn't growth, our goal is to thrive. And that's a very key distinction and for me that manifests in, you know, sustainability. It's why one of our, our key metrics out of the weather port's always been the cash reserve because it's that cash reserve that allows us to say no to a project that's not a good fit.
Speaker 5 00:34:27 It's that cash reserve that allows us to maintain when there are hiccups, maintain our team. It's very painful when you're a small company to have to lay people off unexpectedly or have some sort of non-voluntary layoff. And it, we maintain those cash reserves so that we don't have to, and we maintain them at a level that's higher than you would typically find because we have intense client concentration, we want to work deeply with fewer clients and with that there comes a risk that if one of those clients were to, you know, go away unexpectedly or just go through its natural life cycle and we don't have a ready-made replacement, we're not caught on the back foot and gonna say yes to something that we really shouldn't.
Speaker 1 00:35:18 Yeah. So given your personal stretch, when you step into the best version of yourself, what's a characteristic or quality from that best version that's suited for this vulnerability that you wanna hang on to?
Speaker 5 00:35:33 The creative problem solver?
Speaker 1 00:35:35 Yeah, so the creative problem solver. Yeah. Yeah. What is it like, what's that, what's, what's that little slice of Tiffany like?
Speaker 5 00:35:44 It's very generative, it's very collaborative. It's, it sees constraints as opportunities rather than, you know, as, as oppressive or, or negative, right? It's, it's really like, okay, alright, let's try this other thing. I am very experimental in those ways, but I struggle to find collaborators who are able to kind of have the context I do. So that's, that's probably why we started with transparency because I really, I admire and respect my colleagues so much. I really just want them to be able to play in my pool. And I also have to respect that not all of them want to play in that pool, but I think there are some who do and who would, but for some experience or exposure. And so I think that's the holding onto that key of, of an invitation rather than it being a request from your CEOI think is a, a big part of the mindset switch that has to happen for each person individually in a self-organizing organization.
Speaker 0 00:37:00 Well, Tiffany, you've given us a a lot of anticipation and we're all gonna be quite excited to listen to the next podcast because there is so much going on here and you've gone really deep into the woods with this, something that I'm sure a lot of executives listening are gonna be really intrigued about because you are approaching a topic that really causes a lot of concern and, and you've already been through some of that and this, this extra experiment really is gonna show us a lot more. So, so thank you very much for coming onto the podcast and showing us this and really coming along with the courage and experimenting with us and we look forward to hearing back when you come back. So thank you so much, Tiffany.
Speaker 5 00:37:40 Thank you, Ron. Thank you, Lisa. I really, I appreciate what the invitation and the nudge to work out loud and to include others in this work. And so I, I don't think I would've taken that step, but for, you know, your encouragement. So thank you.
Speaker 0 00:37:55 Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Leadership Agility podcast, and join us next time when we follow up with Tiffany to learn more about her insights and experiences with her experiment of transparency.
